Conversing Across the Divide: An Meeting Between Different Perspectives
Meeting the Individuals
One Diner: P., 34, London
Profession Former civil servant, now a learner focusing on public health
Voting record Voted the Green Party recently (also a affiliate of the political group); previously Labour. Describes himself as “progressive, and globalist instead of nationalist”
Interesting fact A sketch of a tea cup Peter did as a child was once hung in the Irish National Gallery
Other Participant: Akshat, 43, Harrow
Profession Risk manager in the construction sector
Voting record Hailing from the Indian subcontinent, Akshat has lived in the United Kingdom for half a decade, and voted Conservative. Identifies as “somewhat moderate right”
Interesting fact He taught himself to understand Urdu. “It has no practical use for me, I was just fascinated”
Initial impressions
The first participant Over the last two decades, I have resided and been employed in the Middle East, East Asia, the US. The topics we discussed are UK-centric, but they are also global, because people's lives largely follows the same curve across the world. I anticipated someone very liberal, but he was quite measured – we had a good, rational discussion. I had a couple of beers, Peter had mojitos.
The second participant We shared appetizers – seafood rolls, steamed buns, daikon cakes with beansprouts, which were superb. I felt somewhat anxious, as I think Akshat was. Was he going to attack me for my sensitivity? We each have immigrant backgrounds. I grew up in Dublin; I have resided in the US and the Iberian Peninsula. We bonded over our affection for London.
The big beef
The first participant I view migration like adding salt to a meal. When you add a little bit, the dish tastes wonderful. Add too little or too much and the dish is insipid or overly seasoned.
Peter Akshat used an analogy regarding salt. It would be odd to exist if the government was selecting some preferred demographic of the nation.
Akshat There are, unfortunately, individuals escaping oppression, but many migrants coming to the UK are economic migrants who do not necessarily contribute much and can burden the welfare system. Nobody forces you to go to a new country for opportunity, so you should only go if you are able to support your own needs and your family.
The second participant We got lost with some of the facts. In my view it is the case that you come over and work and then after five years you obtain permanent citizenship. No process is guaranteed. It’s been a hostile environment since Theresa May, application costs are quite expensive, you pay an healthcare levy, access to benefits is restricted. There is no special treatment for anybody. And concerning the new policies, under which you can’t bring your family over, it is astonishing to state: we want your work, but we reject you as a person. I think we have to have a certain level of humanity.
Common ground
The first participant Peter’s sceptical of unchecked capitalism. So am I, but at the same time, wealth creation benefits society and should be encouraged.
The second participant We each have global outlooks. And we concurred that certain elements of society – politics, the press – benefit from stoking division. We did find shared understanding in basic principles and ethics.
For afters
The first participant Peter is of the opinion that because the UK profited from the colonial era, it ought to provide reparations to affected nations. My view is simply: you cannot judge history with present day morality; times are different, current society had no control of events 50 or 100 years ago. Let’s say the Britain was obliged to repay India, it would be a huge amount of money. Is Britain able to do that? No.
Peter In the past, I believe there was much reckoning with colonial history. For example, when I first moved to the UK, people had little knowledge of the Great Famine and the part that colonialism played in it. I hold that decolonisation isn’t just about issuing payments, it ought to involve looking at what went wrong and where we should be now.
Final thoughts
Akshat It won’t change the way I think, but I understand his worries. I talk to people regularly with opinions are opposite to my own. The goal is uniting people to the same page, so that everyone can work towards the improvement of the community.
Peter We remained for 150 minutes. He enjoyed a sweet treat and I had a Japanese dessert wine. I did not convince him of anything, but we both enjoyed the meal, so we might become more open to having conversations with others in the coming times.
